Transitions

Amazing! The Shack has sold over 10 MILLION copies world wide! The message of God's love found in The Shack is manna to a starving world. My Shack discussion guide is still available via email upon request in word or pdf format, just send me your email address.

In case you missed it, you might want to listen to Wayne Jacobsen's Transitions. It is a tape of his weekend retreat that talks about a life lived Love and what it might look like. You can find it at lifestream.org. Click on the word transitions or the picture.

Bo's Cafe Discussion Guide

Bo’s Café Discussion Guide

Why this discussion Guide?
The Shack described a relationship with God every believer’s heart longs for but not in a place and way it is possible. Bo’s Café describes a real way and place where a “shack” kind of relationship can be realized here and now with real people. For some it will begin in the ongoing online exchange with real people sharing their hearts and hurts. For others they will discover this kind of life is possible right now within the community of believers they already have around them. For all the rest, Papa will provide these type of real relationships if they ask. We can visit The Shack in our hearts, but we can pull up a chair and talk to a real person in our own Bo’s Café.

How to use this discussion Guide
This guide was developed to be applicable to a number of situations. It can be used for individual reflection, one night book reviews and more serious discussions. Individuals can follow along as they read, and one night book club discussions can just skip to the chapters that most interest them. The key concepts are marked in bold for groups to discuss. For the most part, there is NO right answer. It is just a discussion starter with a prayer that the Holy Spirit will lead the group where He wants it to go. I would not suggest groups try to discuss all the questions, just pick through them for the one that interests you. Key questions are in bold letters. No page number indicates the question comes from the last noted page listed before it.
Who Am I to be writing this?
No one really. I wrote an unauthorized discussion guide for Windblown’s first book, The Shack, and posted it on line. That post resulted in about 900 groups requesting a copy via email and thousands of hits on the site where people could just click and paste the discussion guide. Some of those groups asked if I had any more guides they could use…so since I really believe in the message of Bo’s Café, I wrote this guide. If you want (or need) to know more about me, I’m easy to find at immanuelmission.com, papaponderings.blogspot.com and Donald Zimmermann on Facebook. I have met the authors and publishers a couple of times in group settings and although they are aware of this guide, they are in no way responsible for it or connected to it in any way. Their heart is for the message to go out. I believe they are really living the life described in Bo’s Café. Please do not use this guide in any way that would infringe on their rights or message.

This Guide is offered with the firm conviction that Father will keep His promise:
HEB 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
HEB 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
HEB 8:12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
I honestly believe you have your own Andy in the person of the Holy Spirit who will teach you all you need to know to live in fellowship with the Father and His Son. Invite Him to join you in your discussion. He says he will join you, believe it.


So tell me, Who’s your Andy?

Fenton’s --ill
Why was Steven at Fenton’s? 1
Did Steven really want to be alone? Why do you think that?
Why did Andy persist in attempting to enter into Stephen’s life? 2
Was Andy being insensitive and rude? Why or why not?
Does Andy’s pushy way bother you? Why or why not?
What was Andy risking in pushing himself on Stephen?
What is it to “stumble around in a dark room, bumping into furniture”? 7
Is Andy’s statement true in real life? “Look, Stephen, you’ll never discover most of what you went searching for tonight as long as you’re setting the terms.” Why or why not? 12
Did Stephen go to Fenton’s for a purpose or was he brought there?
Why did Stephen really go to Fenton’s in the first place?
Coincidence is defined as: A sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged. Who’s plan? And for what purpose?
Do you believe in coincidence?

You really don’t get it, do you?
What did Steven not understand? Why?
Why was Lindsey so upset with Stephen? 14
Do you identify with either of them?
What is the most serious issue between Lindsey and Stephen?
How did they get into this condition?
Have you ever felt like Stephen? “How did this happen? I’ve got to fix this and I don’t know how.” 20

She’s a Lot of Detroit Magic, She is.
Considering Andy’s soiled past, does he really have any right to say anything to Stephen? Why do you say that? 22
Does Andy’s past make him a better or a worse confidant? How?
Why does Stephen reach out to Andy for help? 23
Was it really Andy’s voice Stephen was hearing in his head? IF not, whose voice?
Why did Andy wait so long to get back together with Stephen? 24
What kind of vehicle do you need to be a real Grace driver?

The Marriot, Room 643
How long should Steven wait for Lindsey to feel bad enough to call?25
Why is emotional stress so physically draining?

The Bluff Facing South

What are people trying to protect themselves from? 31
Why are they failing?
What kind of things do friends “dance around” instead of confront? Why?
What truths would / could set them free?
What constitutes “spinach in our teeth?”
What is your favorite way to “self-protect”? How’s that working for you?
How does hiding give issues power? 33
If exposure reduces the power of an issue, why is it so hard to expose it?
What does Andy mean “God is the only one who can see in the dark” and how could that help Steven?
Since Steven is hoping for some advice, why is Andy so reluctant to give any?
What is a spiritual kick in the pants and how effective is it in solving problems?
Why hasn’t Steven been able to fix his problems: In his own opinion, in Andy’s opinion and in your opinion?
How common in real life is Steven’s “pattern” of doing the best that he can?
Why doesn’t knowledge of a problem provide a way to deal with it? What is still missing?
What is “a way in” that Andy is hoping for?
Do you think Steven even knows who he really is? Why do you say that?
What percentage of the people you know “carry around guilt, or anger or bottled up hurt and don’t have any idea where to put it”?
Do the people around you know you well enough to truly speak for you at your funeral? Could you meaningfully speak at theirs?
Steven and Lindsey both have an expectation that going to church might have helped them. Would it? Why do you think that?

My Respect for Burglars Is Rising by the Moment

Was changing the locks really necessary?
Why is Stephen refusing to accept that he scarred Lindsey?
If Steven followed through on his threats of freezing funds, what does Andy mean by “the furniture will move again and you won’t be able to turn that light on again for a long time”?
Why was Andy so brief with Stephen on the phone?
Why did Stephen take Andy’s advice?

Angry People Eat, Don’t They?
After two weeks of separation Andy thought things seemed to be getting better? Were they? Why or why not?
Stephen felt Andy was manipulating him, was he? How? If it was not manipulation, what was it?
What’s with the Sunglasses?
Why does Andy respond with humor to Stephens announcement of “ real anger issues”?
Andy tells Peter “I have no desire to be your fixer. I want to be your friend.” If this whole thing is not about fixing Stephen, what is it about?
If Andy could magically fix Stephen’s anger issues, would that solve Stephen’s problem? Elaborate on your opinion.
IF Andy was not manipulating Stephen by taking him to Bo’s Café , what was Andy doing? Do you agree with Andy or not? Explain
Deep down does Stephen really know he needs to be “trapped”? To what end?
What was the allure of the fish market for Stephen?
Do you like the idea of a “regularly scheduled meeting you don’t have to show up to” appealing? For what specific reason?
How was the group that as gathering on the deck different from what Stephen was used to?
How did Cynthia and the gang overcome Stephen’s resistance so quickly? Specifically, what did they do?
Do you agree with Carlos:…most people don’t have someone safe enough when things go south”? Why not? What specifically is the problem in your opinion?
What is Andy “waiting” for?
Are you waiting for someone or is someone waiting for you?
Why was Carlos so impressed with Andy?
Will this really set someone free? “Andy was the first dude I ever met who had more confidence in the grace of God than in the power of the crap I was dragging around.” What does this mean?
Do most people wear masks like Carlos described to Stephen? Why?
What does “the dude was convinced that God in Carlos was enough mean? Why would this one idea give Carlos so much strength?
What do other people try to add to us besides God in us to make us good enough. Good enough for who?
“I didn’t know how to help anyone be anything –except some fake dude like me”…Is Carlos the exception here or the rule? What makes you suspect that?
Can you relate to “I’m trying so hard to do what you preach. And I can’t. I don’t know how to do it. Help me. Don’t keep telling me more stuff to do. I haven’t been able to do what you told me to do last week. I’m always failing. Please help me.
Is Andy’s advice right? Does scripture confirm or deny these statements. Which Scripture?
What if you told them that God was Crazy about them
…that they didn’t have to look over their shoulders.
What if you told them they didn’t have to walk around carrying this big bag of religious ‘ought-tos’?
What if you told them they weren’t just saved sinners trying to appease a God who’s way over there
What if you told them they were saints?
That they are saints with a built in ability to do great things?
What if you taught them that if they believed, it would actually start to keep them from the wrong that’s tearing them up?
Do the religious folk you know “love getting the crap beat out of them by the preacher? IF that is accurate, is it a good thing? How’s it working?
Why would people look for guilt?
What was it that Stephen thought he knew but Carlos was sure he did not know? How common is that?
What does Carlos mean by Jesus in Carlos Badillo on his worst freakin day?
Why do people WANT others to put on masks instead of letting who they really are out?
Does every one have junk? Who might be the exceptions? (besides newborns)
How are believers conditioned to become “ambulance chasers”.
Why doesn’t fixin work? What is the alternative to it?
How is maturity different from fixin?
What is “all information and arrogance”?
Where can “Your skill becomes more valuable than you” happen?
Is there a “safe enough place where you can tell the worst about yourself and not be loved or respected less, but more?
What happens to a person when they find that safe place? Do they hid there or shine there?
What’s it usually take to even want to find that safe place?
Does everyone hear the “whisper that’s been there all my life? What is it? What happens if it is ignored?

At a Table a Few Blocks From the Marriot

‘I know what we’re doing isn’t a plan”. How many people try to make it a plan do what they did in lieu of a plan? Does it ever work in the long run?
Why does Stephen think things are “different this time”? Are they different? How?
Why does Stephen just lay on his bed watching Lacrosse instead of doing what he never had time to do before?

Why Do You Enjoy Making Everything I Say Sound Stupid?
IF Andy and Cynthia are not being very intentional, what are they doing to mentor Andy?
What is Stephen looking for from Andy and Cynthia?
Andy is waiting for a way in. What does that mean?
What causes Stephen’s blindness to what God is trying to do? Is that a common problem in your world?
How is “resolving life issues stuff not like resolving problems at work”?
Why won’t information, agreement or diligence resolve the problems Stephen faces? Will they resolve your problems? Detail why or why not. 88
“You don’t know who you really are because you haven’t yet learned grace”. What is grace and how would it help Stephen know himself better?
How do you react to Andy’s satirical description of Grace: Yep, first you start talking about grace. Next thing you know you’re skipping Sunday School and sleeping in till noon. Then, a couple days later you’re down at the dog track, drinking whiskey our of a paper bag and dating a showgirl named Tiffany!” 89
How often do people (with the best intentions) use “religious concepts, and promote them to others when they haven’t even worked for (themselves)?”
Is grace “a gift only the non religious can accept”? Why do you think?
How is grace “soft”?
”Nothing defines religion quite as well as a bunch of people trying to do impossible tasks with limited power while bluffing to themselves that it’s working.” Do you agree or disagree? Elaborate.
If will power won’t get it done, what will? 90
Is there “a place safe enough to tell the worst about your and still be loved just as much , if not more, for sharing it”?
Why is that safety called…and environment of grace”?
How universal is the feeling of shame? 91
Why did Andy share his story with Stephen? 92
How did finding a safe place help Andy? 93
Why would this be true: “Only then could he begin to look at the worst of who he was without being destroyed by it?”
Even if superior religious folks were to impart truth to us, how does that help?
Is this true: Each of us walks with a profound limp? What does that mean?
Do you agree with Andy’s advice? “Don’t ever trust anyone who makes you feel intimidated by their presence because of some aura of religious superiority”. Share why you think that. 94
What does Andy mean “I want to be someone who’s vulnerable and authentic”?
Why might this work? “I’m learning the power of love to heal me. I am trusting HIM with me. No other cards….no other nothing.
Whose love is healing Andy? Cynthia, Bo, Carlos, Hank et al?
Who is Andy ultimately trusting?
Is that same love and safety available to you? Why or why not?


God, What Are You Doing to Me Here?

Why does Stephen challenge God for what is happening in his life? Is it common for people to do that? Why? 97
Why does Steven’s defensiveness say about what is going on inside him? 99
Why has “none of my training prepared me to solve this one”? 101
Since Stephen has reached his dream, why is he “dying on the inside”?
Is it possible to be a Christian ”at most, nine hours a week”? What does that say about Stephen’s concept of being a Christian? What does Stephen count in the nine hours? Do most people have similar lists? 102
Why do you think Andy keeps saying things like “do you want to continue” or ignore what Stephen just said? Is it the ONLY way Andy could accomplish his purpose?
Since Andy felt Stephen finally showed some progress, why did he cut it off and walk away? What is he waiting for? 103
Is there a deeper meaning to “I don’t pick the crowd”? Who does pick it? Is there a lesson there? 105
Is ”trust a right response to another’s love”? Why? Does it model God’s desire for His relationship with us?
Why did Andy expect Stephen to pull his cards back?
What do you think people fear most, being exposed or NOT being exposed? Which will do the most damage in the long run? Why?
Answer Andy’s three Test Questions as if YOU were Andy to Determine if YOU are a Healthy Protector: 106
1. Do I see other’s as sinners trying to be saints or as saints who still sometimes fail?
2. Is my goal that something will get conquered or fixed, or that nothing will remain hidden?
3. Do I care more about getting your issues resolved or establishing a healthy relationship so the issues can be resolved?
What is Andy’s advice to Stephen for advisors that do not possess these qualities in spades? Why?
Paraphrase in your own experience Andy’s description of the wrong kind of advisor. How prevalent is this type of advisor/counselor?
Why is it difficult to mesh work and a spiritual life? 107
Does “sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self interest” actually produce anything that is beneficial in the long run? Explain.
How does humility produce the best?
If a person were to ever actually “arrive”, where or what would that person be? 108
Can a person learn to love before he learns to be loved?
What is the protection offered in exchange for the permission given?

We Should Talk
Did Stephen write to Lindsey to control and manipulate or to expose some part of his inner self to her? 110
How did Lindsey respond? Why?

Out of Excuses
Why do you think Stephen felt the newness is gone? Is this common? Why? What is really going on? 114
What great gifts can failure bring? 117
What is more important, information or influence?
Why don’t little techniques, they don’t do squat? 118
Who does Carlos believe is trying to get Stephens attention? How will that help Steven?
What does “a safe place isn’t a soft place” mean? 119
What is a safe place?
How/why can a person be loved MORE for revealing the junk in his life?
“Safe is where I can tell you my garbage so you can enter in and stand with me in the solution of it.” How could that be possible? 120
What does a person have to care about “more than getting better before they can ever get better”?
Have you ever watched “someone cover pain with something that makes them hurt even more”? What happened? What could have prevented it? 121
Why did Hank tell Stephen “to be kind to Andy when you walk out”? 124
What are the pieces Carlos and Hank would be picking up?
What does this suggest Andy was willing to risk for Stephen?

This Whole Stinking Things a Joke!

What is the basis for Stephens entire pity party monologue? 125
Is Stephen’s tirade against God a good thing or a bad thing? What does it say about his view of himself and his view of God?

Good-bye to the Mint-Strawberry Water

Why do you think Lindsey asked Stephen to come home when nothing had really been resolved?
Why was Stephen avoiding Andy?

Just Alan

How long can people live “being pretty careful around one another”? What does that do to the quality of the relationship? What would be the other choices? 133
Who is right about Alan, Lindsey or Steve, both or neither? 134
Why is Alan such a help to Lindsey?
Why is Alan such a threat to Stephen?
Why did Stephen lose it again with Lindsey? 136
Why does Stephen bother to pray when his last prayer was an attack on God’s ability to really do anything?
Does everyone have to come to the same turning point that Steven came to before they can truly change? (so why’s it feel different now?) 137
So who’s your DADDY now Stephen?

I’m a Mess Andy

Andy knew who Stephen was long before Steven went to Fentons. Why did Andy wait so long to contact Stephen? What does that say about waiting on the Holy Spirit’s timing? 141
Why was Stephen so heavy on Andy’s heart before they officially were re-introduced?
Did Andy lie to Steven back on pg 8 when he implied he knew Stephen’s name because of the name tag Steven was wearing? Is it a lie to not tell everything you know. (read John 7 when Jesus tells his brothers it is not time to go yet, then shows up later).
Why didn’t Andy respond to Stephen’s pleading? 142
What does “looks like we’re not in Kansas anymore” mean?
Why is Steven now ready? 144
What could have been done to speed up the process?
What was the huge change in Stephen? Why is that so huge?
How was Stephen trusting Andy with himself?
How does Andy now protect Stephen? 145
What had Andy been doing in the weeks before to prepare for this moment? How important is that?
How universal is the shame experience? How do people hide it?
How does shame take a violation from your past and convince you that how you felt then is who you will always be? 146
How and why do people create a lie to protect themselves from the shame lie? 147
Why doesn’t all the tricks we use to cover shame really work?
Why do most people try to modify bad behavior rather than deal with the root problem? What would help? 148
How is behaviorism like Whack-a-Mole? 150 Why does it NOT work?
How effective is it to find the “root” problem?
Is Andy right? “No psychological mallet can solve the shame that triggers the lie that releases the mole.” 151
What is “the Jesus card”?
Why does Stephen feel it is “smoke and mirrors”?
If Jesus really did deal with the shame, why doesn’t
How can anyone ”believe what you’re not yet willing to believe?” 152
What does it meant to be willing to try on the new clothing? 152
Which is actually true about a person, the lie they tell themselves about who they are or the identity God gives them?
Why do people struggle with this?
How does Jesus truly feel about you? Why do you feel that way?
Which is more popular? Trusting Jesus, faking it, or a program? Which is your personal method?
Is Christ coming through me the true story about me? Is that the same thing as: Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
What does Andy mean by “That dog’ll hunt?”
Why isn’t shame resolved when a person becomes a Christian? 153
Why is ‘Jesus is fully disgusted with them’…the greatest lie in the mix?
What is the proof that we cannot fix ourselves? 154
Is what Stephen is hearing from Andy about God the same thing you have been hearing about God? What is different?
Do you share this fear? What’s God gonna do with menow that I’ve given my life to Him? Are you worth being loved? In whose opinion?
What do you have to do to get what Steven wants? How do you do that? 155
Why would anyone be happy when the ugly truth about them was revealed?
How long does it take to get there?
Where did Andy’s concern for Steven come from? 156
Where do your concern for people come from?
How is protection an expression of love? What is being protected, the sin or the person?
How is that different from what typically goes on in a circle of believers?
How does protective love create vulnerability? 157
What are the steps involved to get there?
What do you use to attempt to control your world?
Why didn’t Stephen just “stop doing what you’ve been doing wrong before now? How’s that typically work out?
What was wrong with Stephen’s looking for a fix to his problem? 158
Why did Andy stop steering the boat? How wise was that? 159
Was Andy really ready to listen before the Boat steering incident? Is it a point in time or an ongoing process? 161
Why can’t Stephen honestly know when he is lying, bluffing, pretending or telling the truth?
Why does Andy say he is just a hack at helping? Where does he real help come from? 162
How is “telling Lindsey your game plan” going to help? What does this do that is different?
How was Stephen “drinking his own poison”? 163
What is real repentance? Explain in detail. 164
Why won’t Andy tell Stephen what to say when he talks to God, but will help him with what to say to Lindsey?
“The heart can’t be talked into trust”. What does build trust?
When is it ok to ask for forgiveness? 165
What was the best advice Andy gave Stephen?
Does God bless or endure? What does that imply? 166

Go Figure, Andy Was Right.

What was “whispering” to Stephen for the past month? 167
How was Stephen’s prayer? 169
Why did Stephen feel better?
Does it make a real difference HOW we define ourselves? 170
Is Stephen really a saint on his worst day? Says who?
How’s Steven’s prayer life coming along now? Why? 171
What was Andy right about? 172
Why did Lindsey accept Stephen’s apology? 180

Where Do We Go From Here?

Why won’t “reaffirming our love and commitment to each other …do it alone”? 181
Why did Stephen get the Electra back for Andy? 182

How Have I Missed This Kind of Life?

Do you have a lurking feeling that you are missing something in life? Do you know what is missing?
What had Andy taught Stephen? Have you learned that lesson yet? 186

So The Suit Found a Date Huh?, What the Deal Is With Dat?
What does it mean to “watch life from a distance”? 191
Why did Stephen think something was wrong with Lindsey?
Why did it all go so terribly wrong? What happened?
When and how did Stephen realize that the gang really did have “more confidence in the Grace of God than in the power of the crap he was dragging around? What difference did it make now? (66) 199
How did the group show love to Stephen after he blew up?
How predictable was it that something like this would happen? Why? Is it always necessary?
What’s the difference between bring pitied and Knowing your being pitied? Which is really worse?
What is the difference between a ploy and sincerity? 201
What did Andy tell Stephen was “all you’ve got”? Is it enough for everyone? Explain.
What is Andy’s recipe for protecting Stephen? Why would it work? 202
Why was Stephen’s view of Lindsey’s reactions so different from everyone else’s view?
Why did the lunch never have a chance from the start?
Do most people lose it for a similar reason to why Stephen lost it? 203
Do you feel trapped in a relationship where you are trying to get someone to perform by your rules or are you trying to figure out someone’s rules for you…or both?

Why Do You Get So Angry?

Is there a common underlying reason why people et angry?
Why doesn’t Jennifer look at her dad when they talk? Does the reason sound familiar to you? 207
How else might a person try to shelter herself from being hurt? How effective is it?
Why didn’t Stephen like hearing from Lindsey when he is getting out of control?
How many ways do people “power up”? Is one way more effective or destructive than another? 208
Does anyone “whistle” for you? 209
Is someone in your life waiting to tell you something you need to hear…but don’t want to? What is stopping them? 209
What happens when you tell someone something the really need to hear before they are ready to hear it?
Was there anything special or different about the apology Stephen wrote to Lindsey?

There Ain’t No Together People, Just Some With Whiter Teeth

Why didn’t Carlos pity Stephen and how did it help? 214
What is the “great secret payoff for all those who give others permission to see behind the mask”?
Is the payoff worth the risk? Why?
What is the goal of letting people see the real you?
How does a “leper group” get established? How contagious is Leprosy?
Who truly is NOT a member of the leper group?
Is this true and what does it mean: There Ain’t No Together People, Just Some With Whiter Teeth? 215
How did Cynthia make someone feel like a leper?
Why was that important for Cynthia to share?
How can “trouble knows how to find someone hanging out in the same room: be stopped?
Is it common for people to feel angry with God for not protecting them? Why? 217
What does a person have to assume when they get angry with God?
Why do we try to retie the knots when God is wanting to free someone? Won’t making them suffer a little for their errors go a long way towards preventing future errors? REALLY?
When God frees a person from sin, are they more or less likely to be a repeat offender?
How does “never letting the other fell free or restored” affect another person? What is gained/lost? 218
Are churches in general known for letting people feel free and restored? Why or why not?
What does Cynthia mean by arrogant blindness?
Shouldn’t weak people be controlled?
What did Cynthia have to do to change, regain her sight? 219
Would a Bo’s Café atmosphere and attitude be fit for a local church? Describe how it would look and feel in a church setting? 220
How could you move your church in this direction? What would stop you?
How long does it take to regain trust? What does it take to start? 221
What can we know that will break the lie/shame cycle for good? 222
What helps to shorten the process? 222


I Was Playing You Like a Gibson Hummingbird

In what way did the Christmas display remind Stephen of the changes in his life? 223
Why did Megan want Stephen’s help? 227
Is this the normal way things should go in the body of Christ?
Elaborate: “Integrity is proven when you admit what you cannot do and honor what you say you can do”. 228
Is ”Proving I was worthy of love” wired into everyone? Why? 229
What was Andy’s real life issue?

And Back Again

What made it harder for Lindsey now than before? 233
How had the relationship improved? Why?
Is there really such a thing as a “passive, controlled guy”? Is that all bad? 234
How far do the ripple rings effect others when a person chooses to start living in true Grace?

I Have Waited For This Moment For a Week

What is “the true legacy of exchange”? 337
Isn’t everyone really a prodigal….finding their way back home!
Be sure to join in the ongoing story at boscafe.com. Andy and Cynthia would love to hear from you!

The Shack Ch 14, part 1

CHAPTER 14
VERBS AND OTHER FREEDOMS

194 What does God is a verb mean?
A I am
195 Are you aware of Sarayu’s presence sometimes more than other times? Why?
Is Sarayu more “intentional”. Why would that be?
Are there other voices we hear in our spirit that we could confuse with Sarayu?
A Voice of self, calling for our own interests first. The voice of satan, questioning, accusing or excusing.
What happens if you make a mistake?
A Be sure to make the distinction between sin and a judgment error. Sin should be resisted and fought. Judgment errors are a part of life. Loosen up on yourself and others. Papa is in charge. If I mistake the voice of the spirit for self or satan’s voice, Papa will still work it out. We will NOT be prefect, but He is. Sometimes we will do the wrong thing for the right reason. Uncertainty is a part of faith. Make every effort to align the voice with the Word and know Father is in charge of even the smallest details.
196 What would be the best kind of mistake to make, seeing as your going to make one anyway?
A Doing the wrong thing for the right reason. This is not necessarily a sin issue, just a path issue, a judgment issue. Not all mistakes are bad. The only way we learn to make good choices is by making a few bad ones. If it is a sin issue, see 1Jo 1:9 and move on immediately. If it is a judgment issue, learn what you can and move on.
How does God handle honest sincere mistakes?
A Mistakes are not always sin, they may be just a lack of experience, expertise, information or maturity. God is actively using everything for our good and his Glory. You can make a mistake, He cannot. Rom. 8:28. We tend to make more mistakes when we “worry” over them as opposed to living our life in Christ. Live free. It is OK to not know the best answer for now. God is totally in charge. In our spirit we know when we are acting in rebellion and when we are truly trying to discern God’s way. Remember there is a big difference between God’s Will, which is universal for all men….IE that any should perish..2Pe 3:9…and God’s plan and path for each individual. All of us should seek his will and follow the path. Will questions are easy, they are declared in scripture, Path questions are fluid and conditional on an infinite number of things. Like Papa told Mack, he can find you on any path if you make a mistake. The only true mistake in path questions is not learning from them.
How does he handle rebellious, self centered mistakes?
A The cross. Rebellion carries with it it’s own punishment.
Do you feel like you have things under control?
If you do is it reality?
If you don’t, when and why did you discover you do not have things under control?
A I barely have me under control sometimes. Sometimes I pretend to have things under control but I am just fooling me. There is virtually no aspect of life I can control. I must leave all that to Father who indwells me. When I think I have a responsibility to control things or people I am forced to make rules I cannot keep or enforce.
What value is emotions?
A They are the spice of life, but not the meal
Do honest emotions always tell the truth?
A Only by accident or coincidence. Emotions are based on feelings, perceptions, available information of questionable reliability, history, hopes, health, experience, fears and the like. Occasionally they will coincide with truth but are not capable of revealing truth in and of themselves.
Tell of a time when your emotions told you the truth?
A Emotions do not tell truth, per se, but they do coincide with truth giving the appearance of truth telling. Example: As a young teen I sat next to a incredibly beautiful woman at a Dodger Base ball game. Emotionally I remember feeling an attraction…to a woman easily twice my age…I was really falling for her beauty until she opened her mouth to disagree with a call the ump had made. Emotions and opinion drained faster than the beer she spilled. The first time I saw the girl who was to become my wife, I found her fascinating, intriguing, beautiful (I could go on but you get the point). I was not lacking female companionship at the time, but she quickly eclipsed all others. We have been married 39 years.
When do your emotions tend to lie to you?
A Mostly when I am awake.
How do people try to control emotions?
A Medicate, liquid-date, deny, ignore, reject etc. with all the effectiveness of squeezing jello-o
Which is the most effective method of control?
A Revealed substantiated truth and accepting that Emotions just are.
197 What is the power behind emotions according to Sarayu?
A “Paradigms power perceptions and perceptions power emotions”. “check the truth of what you believe”.
How often have your perceptions been accurate?
Have you experienced a paradigm shift in reading the Shack? What changed?
If we lived in absolute perfect truth, could emotions be trusted?
A Never! To many other conflicting circumstances, experiences, health, rest, etc are involved.
If we cannot trust our emotions, what can we trust?
A JN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
How might living out of relationship be more complicated than following rules?
A Following rules is simple, on the surface at least. It is also unsatisfactory as a basis to live life. NO set of rules can hope to capture the essence of a relationship. Rules cannot anticipate or respond to all the variables that life presents. If they could we would not need a supreme court to interpret the rules and a legislature to continue to make new ones. The sheer volume of changing rules is a testimony to the complexity of living in relationship. Rules are a false substitute for relationship.
How might it be simpler?
A When a person is truly in love the responses are natural and effortless, rules are unnecessary and undesirable. They inhibit rather than promote life.
How successful can you be following the rules.
A If I could make all the rules (and change them at my whim) I could follow part of them part of the time. I know some people who are really good rule keepers, but they have a limited number of static rules to keep.
Whose rules are you going to follow?
A Personally, I’m not a good rule keeper so I don’t tend to follow or make very many. My wife is really good about keeping rules. If it is a rule, she will try to keep it…..except with me. She does not try to impose any rules on me, she just loves me. Her love has changed what I do more than anything else.
Which way satisfies the soul?
A Since I am not attuned to keeping rules, (and it is not that I intentionally break them, I just don’t think much about them) relationships are the only route for me.
Why did Sarayu say ”the Bible does not teach you to follow rules” when there are plenty of commands written in it?
A The essence of The Word is the revelation of The Christ, the word become flesh and dwelling among us. Just keeping the rules does not give life, Only God, living in us does. EPH 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
198 What is the essence of living life?
A I was DEAD, I am now alive. Gal 2:20
What does “living in Him” mean? How is it done?
A God becomes our sole source of direction, devotion, intention, everything. NOT in a monastic way but in living free, living life. When we belong to Him, but the power of the new birth, he ,makes it possible for me to come to live . See notes at the end of Chapter 10 for more on God living through us.
What is a sure fire indication it is NOT being done?
A the opposite of the fruit of the spirit with the corresponding problems.
Whose righteousness are we to live in? How do you acquire it?
A The righteousness of Christ. ISA 61:10 I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness,. We live in this righteousness by the moment, not by the day or week. Since God is not keeping score, you do not have to keep track of points, just live free in him choosing moment by moment. Never linger in failure, it was forgiven on the cross. God will never be disappointed with you because he had NO expectations of you in the first place. See He Loves Me Ch 17
What can rules never do? Is that universally true of all kinds of relationships?
A Rules can never love.
Describe the difference between right answers and the living answer.
A The living answer is a person, Jesus Christ. Life becomes a relationship, not a list. Lists create expectations and demands, relationships can respond to life with love.
What would you predict having a relationship with the right answer would produce in your life? How would you feel? What would you do? How would it affect relationships with other?
Compare your life to the answers to the 2 previous questions. What do your answers tell you about your life?
Is there a change you need to make? What is stopping you?
Do the real answers in life come from right answers or right relationships?
A without relationships, answers have not context, meaning or value to your life.
Do you work harder on answers or relationships?
Do relationships require all the answers to be satisfying?
A Not at all. After 39 years my wife is still able to surprise me from time to time. There is more about her to learn and discover. In some ways, I know her completely and yet there is still ample mystery, intrigue, surprise.
Can the search for the right answer stifle a relationship?
A Absolutely. How do you know it is the final answer, the only answer or even the right answer. Most answers change over time with conditions.
How does Sarayu communicate?
A Most reliably from the words of scripture to the spirit of man, enlightened by the Holy Spirit to the circumstance and situation. Usually with a still small voice that draws, answers, satisfies.
If you study the Bible looking primarily for rules and principles, what will you likely end up with?
A Long lists of Rules and regulations. If you limit yourself to the Jewish expressed, explicit thou shalts and shalt nots you will top out in the mid 300’s. If you take an institutional approach, the sky is the limit. You can find a rule for anything and everything, especially when you get to be the rule maker.
How will others react to your kernels of truth as you share?
A Some will call you a saint and help you look for more rules for people to keep. These rules will generally follow the personality and preferences of the rule makers, mostly external, fairly rigid but flexible to the keepers tastes. Others will call you unpleasant names and will get as far away from you as possible as fast as possible. A few will try to embrace your rules for a time, fail miserably and either leave of their own volition in defeat or get kicked out in judgment for failure to keep some important rule.
If you study the Bible looking primarily for keys to relationships, what will you likely end up with?
A Relationships, first with the fullness of Father and then with his bride. In the first 10 verses of Philippians we see Paul sharing deep personal commitment, prayer, confidence, and love with them.
How will others react to your seeking a true relationship with them?
A Most people love to be genuinely loved. Those that do not need love the most.
200 What did the grace of God living in community look like to Mack?
A Light, care free, laughing, respecting, loving, joyous, purposeful, pleasant, friendly, intimate, pure, spontaneous, inviting.
Would there be “banter and laughter” within the Holy Trinity?
A Probably different than ours, but it is hard to conceive of an expression in man that does not have a purified beginning in the relationship inside the trinity.
When believers are walking in harmony is there banter and laughter?
A Tons. The banter is not belittling but playful and enjoyable for ALL. The laughter is with, not at.
Is there any description, definition or comparison that can fully explain the trinity and their relationship?
A YES, DEFINITELY. We will know it as soon as we see Jesus in person after Jesus comes back for us. Until then it is some revelation, some intuition, some guesswork, some contradictions and probably some error.
Do you have a perfect, complete and accurate understanding of your closest friend?
A Not even close.
Is it ok to believe in and accept the trinity when the infinite cannot be described by the finite?
A Mandatory. The reality of a Father, Son and Holy Spirit is declared but not defined in Scripture
A rule approach to the trinity would require having perfect understanding. What would a relationship approach require?
A Acceptance of what you do understand and a trust for whatever you are not sure of or never thought of.
Are you looking for something to know or someone to love and be loved by? Explain
A I sleep with my leather bound book, the Bible on my nightstand and my wife at my side. I have to turn on the light, put on my glasses and prop my self up on pillows to read the book. I have a picture of my wife on the wall, letters from my wife in my files and her sister I could talk to about her lives down the street., but I don’t look at the picture or read the letters, or call her sister, precious as they all are to me. She can lay there silently in the dark beside me and I know I am loved, cherished and accepted just as I am. Jesus is there in the dark too, not on the nightstand but inside of me, Living, loving, leading. I’m going keep my Bible and my letters, but I am going to live life loved with my wife and my Lord.
What would it take to have the relationship with others that Mack desires to have with Nan?
A It has to begin with living loved by Jesus first. From that relationship all others can come.
Please don’t get stuck on how the trinity might interact. This scene is contrived for the purpose of the story. Do not miss the real message here. It pictures how believers should be living in a joyful, playful, harmonious and respectful relationship with Papa, Jesus, Sarayu and each other. Isn’t that what you really want deep down in the depths of your soul? It is there for the asking.
Have you ever asked another person “why do you love me”?
Why didn’t you know the answer to it? Did their answer surprise you?
How would they know why you love them if you did not tell them?
When you ask yourself the question “why would God love me?” what does your heart answer?
A Typically people look to a works answer here and hope for the best. Many have come to the default conclusion that God does not love them.
When you ask yourself the question “why does God love me?’ can your heart actually answer or would you have to ask God to know the answer?
A I dated my wife for a year before I risked telling her that I loved her. I thought, hoped, prayed, wanted, expected, wished and worried over her response. She was as afraid as I was but we stumbled through it that first time. It was far from romantic. Me: This may ruin everything kid, but I love you. Her: I do you too! It was awkward but honest. The words and confidence to express and accept them came easier and easier. Today the same words are pregnant with meaning and we use them often. Interesting, telling her I love her did not ruin anything, on the contrary it made life infinitely sweeter.
How does it make you feel to know that you are loved with no expectations or standards for performance?

New Book

Windblown Media, the publishers of the Shack just released their newest book. I haven't been to Barnes and Noble yet but the reviews look great and Wayne Jacobsen highly recomends it; if fact he suggests men read it before their wives insist that they do. If your curious, just google it and you will find lots of reviews already. It was just released. I'm gonna pick one up this weekend.the shack, the shack discussion guide

The Shack, Ch. 11

My computer guru, Tom Simpson finally got back from Scotland and was able to fix my computer. It had the swine flu or something like that. Works perfect now.

CHAPTER 11
HERE COME DA JUDGE
154 What was Sophia’s point in asking Mack which of his children he loved the most?
A Identify with and understand God’s position
155 What does Sophia mean when she says knowing grows and loved expands to contain it?
A The better we know someone, the more we can love them.
What would that mean to the relationship between God and you?
156 How did God teach Mack to Love? How is he teaching you?
Why did Mack not truly believe God is good? What area in your life causes you to wonder if God is truly good to you? Be brutally honest with yourself even if you don’t answer out loud.
Who do you sit in judgment on? If it is easier to answer, who don’t you sit in judgment on?
What authority does it take to be a real judge? Do you have that authority?
157 What judgment was Mack in the cave for?
A Judging God
158 What indicates that we really are judging, even if we say we are not?
Do you exercise these prerogatives of God?
Determine the standards of conduct for others
Exodus 20:1-17
Demand absolute obedience
Gen. 22:1-12 Deut. 8:20
Judge the lives, attitudes and actions of others
Psa. 9:16; 94:1-2
Control all of life
Acts 17:24-28; Job 12:13-25
Exercise sovereign independence, doing whatever you please
Dan. 4:35; Psa 135: 5-6
Seek the praise and worship of others
John 4:23; Isa. 42:8
Ask help and guidance from no one
Romans. 11:33-34
159 What are your personal criteria for judging?
Who or when do you act superior over another person?
160 When was the last time you judged another person fairly? Unfairly?
What was the last thing you judged God about? (oh yes you did! It is easy to do, just like I just judged you)
What are the ways we usually judge God?
A Worry, anxiety, doubt, fears, insecurity, depression Or in TV’s HEEHAW terms ,”gloom, dismay, agony on me, deep dark depression, excessive misery, if it weren’t for bad luck I’d have no luck at all, gloom, dismay, and agony on me”. Phil 4:19 And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus. We are judging God when we begin to act in these ways. He came to give us life, and set us free.
How effective is judging God in relation to getting our own way?
A It moves us farther away from the help we need.
How can we learn to stop judging God? Others?
A Learn to live in relationship, choosing to live life believing that God is inherently and only good in all his actions towards you. Then move on to believing he loves others too.
161 Was Mack’s anger with the man who killed his daughter justified? Why or why not?
A absolutely justified! Forgiveness is a far different matter as we shall see later.
Was the Little lady killer deserving of any compassion or forgiveness?
A Deserving no, but loved by Papa just the same. But then again who is deserving of anything from God?
Is there a difference between Justice and forgiveness?
A Yes, justice must make demands and be satisfied. Forgiveness is a free gift not requiring merit or worth, only acceptance if it is to be received.
Under what circumstances should a person not receive forgiveness?
A Refusal to receive and accept the offer of forgiveness.
Under what circumstances should a person not receive justice?
A When another has satisfied the claims and demands of the law and judge.
Would Mack be denying justice to Misty if he were to forgive her attacker? Explain.
A No because he would be putting justice into the hands of God who always judges rightly. His forgiving the murderer sets Mack free to live and love. Failure to forgive chains the murderer to Mack with bonds stronger than steel. Mack can never be whole without forgiving.
Can / should God be held accountable for not stopping the evil that is in the world? Why do you say that?
A to stop all evil God would have to deny independence and to do that he would have to NOT create anything at all.
If you decide to hold God accountable, how would you do it?
A When they quit yelling at God, most people tend to quit talking to God or listening to him. Typically they will drop out of relationships and Church, if they were going. To seal the deal they may even join in harmful personal behaviors just to show Him how angry they are. It never works and most all would run to any shack anywhere if God would just send a note inviting them. They would still have to go through the same process Mack did and end up in the same position…believe God or not. Actually God did send a rather long note of invitation explaining everything we need to know. HE LOVES US and wants to live in relation with us, in us and through us. Given gas is $4 a gallon it is much easier to just read the note we have and believe God now. It wouldn’t be that much different than being in a coma for a few days. Does it matter how or where God speaks, so long as he speaks?
162 Would it been easier for Mack if Sophia’s deal was 1 child to hell and 4 to heaven? Why?
A Loving Fathers never bargain with their children’s lives.
If God is not condemning people to hell, how do so many end up going there?
A They have to choose to reject the offer of forgiveness and relationship God offers. Fact is they are ALREADY ON THEIR WAY TO HELL NOW. God is trying to change their destination but leaves the choice to the individual.
Do people say a prayer to Jesus just to stay out of hell?
A many appear to try it.
Do you think it is really working? Is saying a prayer the same as beginning a relationship?
Instead of just scaring people out of hell by trying to literally scare the hell out of them, how could we present Jesus to them?
A This is NOT to say that we should ever minimize Sin and hell, but it is not the whole picture. Relationship now and forever must be included. I am working on a new gospel presentation that begins with: Why are you here? If they choose a evolution answer we talk a bit about if we came from nothing and going to nothing then our greatest hearts desire should be to nothingness! A sample of my outline:
IF Evolution is your answer then the RULES OF NOTHINGNESS should apply.
Nothingness rules:
i. Life is a cosmological accident without plan, purpose or point. Just ignore all the provision as a convenient coincidence.
ii. All is futile, valueless and pointless:
iii. There is really no one to ultimately hold man accountable and whoever and whatever Mother nature is, she does not care
1. All get the same results no matter what:
iv. There is NO justice, No right, no wrong.
v. When you’re dead it is just like before you were born: nothingness.
Does nothingness satisfy your heart?
If they choose a God/creation answer we move on to which God? Only the God of scriptures answers the why question. Listen to what he is offering…Forgiveness, Salvation and relationship. After Reading Wayne Jacobson I am becoming convinced that most gospel presentations are not full enough. They cover sin, but not relationship. I hope to change that.
Which do you think would work better? Give them a copy of the Shack to read or Live Free in Jesus in front of them.
What does living free in Jesus look like?
A A combination of 1 Cor. 13 and Galatians 5:22 with a smile, light heart and good attitude.
163 Why couldn’t Mack chose between his children?

How was Sophia’s suggestions on judging the children any different than the popularly presumed good deeds vrs bad deeds answers most people give for going to heaven.
A They are essentially the same thing. It is really not a good strategy.
What changed the accepted standard?
A Love
What did Mack discover about God when he pleaded to go in his children’s place?
A God acts in love in more difficult situations than Mack faces
What were they Judged worthy of?
A LOVE
164 Why was Mack ok with Jesus but still angry with God?
A He sees them as totally different people based on a flawed understanding of who God is. Mack’s God is a god of his imagination, not the God of revelation.
Why can’t Mack see God and Papa are the same person yet?
A he cannot relate to God’s love in Missys death yet. A male authority figure for God is to distorted by his own father.
What did Mack do to his father?
A Mack poisoned all his liquor before he ran away. His father died.
Why does God NOT stop the evil?
A He will not overrule our independent spirit. He has made a start to correct what sin destroyed in His son’s work on the cross. According to Romans 11:25 he is waiting for the last who will come to him before he stops evil once and for all.
IF God had a physical body (which He does not nor will He ever outside this story) would it have the same scars as Jesus?
Why or why not?
A In theory yes. “the Son can do nothing of Himself …” (John 5:19) READ HE LOVES ME by Wayne Jacobson, ch 14-16 for a fuller picture of this. Wayne’s writing gives many institutional thinkers heartburn and indigestion. While I may not agree with everything Wayne says or how he applies this, for me he is the antacid that cures the sour stomach left by an institution out of relationship. I’m not an unorthodox, rebellious heretic. I’m just tired of the self promoting institutional systems that rob people of a real relationship with the father and place upon me a burden that is impossible to carry. (I actually have a great deal more to say, but it would not sound very gracious so I will stop. :)
Why does mercy triumph over Justice?
A For love. I have personally been a long way down the road Mack was on. I know what it is to be filled with a righteous rage that in another time and place would have warranted the death of the offender. Unlike Mack, I had the opportunity to snuff the life out of the offender and did not do it. For two years I grieved in my spirit for NOT killing him. It was such an injustice to the offended! My heart and life was so shattered I was becoming a danger to myself and my family. My anger to the offender, and yes God, was so great homicide or suicide looked to be the only way out…until in a few nights in a shack of my own. I knew I could not really have forgiveness unless I was willing to forgive. To forgive felt like betrayal to my “Missy”. In a very emotional and powerful moment God brought me and my Missy to the same conclusion. We must forgive if we want to live in relationship. My need for justice was totally overcome by my need for Love. In a miracle that only Papa can do, my anger was gone, never ever to return. My Missy and I found love where anger and bitterness had been. Why? Because if mercy does not triumph over justice, even for a little lady killer, it will not triumph over justice for me either. The degree of sin separation between me and the little lady killer is great but the degree of sin separation between me and God is infinite. I do not deserve mercy, but I cannot live with out it. Thank you Papa, thank You Jesus…The Shack is not just a story written in a book, it is written in blood in the lives of Papa’s children.
165 Do you really want strict justice for everyone?
A NO WAY! Let mercy Rule!
If even one person could not have mercy, could you still have it? You gotta be kidding, really?
A If you said yes go back and reread my comment on why mercy must triumph over Justice. If you still think yes, email me at drdonz@msn.com, we need to talk.
Did Missy have to die? Why did she? What has happened to you or those who you love that did not have to happen?
A There is NO right answer to this. Lives are to complicated to know for certainty and the answer would not help anyway. What the question is here for is to discover if there are unresolved issues of pain and hurt in your life. God does not do WHY questions. As Papa said, we would not understand the answer anyway. The real issue at hand is DO YOU TRUST PAPA’S LOVE?
Do things happen that God does not desire? What?
A Yes, any form of sin, injustice, unloving act, independent spirit.
Why couldn’t Mack see the Better Way?
A independent living, judging Papa
What would Mack have to do to see the better way?
A Let go of his independence and decide to trust Papa’s love more than his pain. Let Papa into his world.
Will that work for anyone, even outside this story?
A It did for me and I know it can for you.
166 Do people in heaven have any awareness of what is happening on earth?
A this is why I believe people in heaven have an awareness of what is going on here. It is from my prayer journal and blog:
Earlier in the week we spoke of the to often missed joy of unanswered prayer. It reminded me of a very special moment in my spiritual walk with Father, (or Papa if you have grown to love that name as I have). I spent the majority of last summer tucked away in my office reflecting on and pleading with Father on a lifetime of issues. Every day I had been asking: Jer. 33:3 “Call upon Me and I will answer thee and show thee great and mighty things which thou knowest not,”. I left it open as to what God might want to reveal to me. Little did I expect the very special gift I was to be given. It was so wonderful I wrote in my journal that people might think I am crazy if I shared it. Since then I have found other wiser, grounded teachers of the faith who have discovered the same truths, men like Bounds and Chambers. I feel free to tell you today but I have to give you a little background to appreciate it for me so you can apply it to yourself. I’ll make it as brief as possible.
My Grandfather, Max E. Zimmermann was a wonderful godly man, strict, but totally dedicated. I wish you could have heard him pray. He knew Father well, really well. He died in 1982 and my saintly grandma in 1984. My mother died of cancer in 85 and my father, (who was also my best friend and closest confidant) went home in 1991. Deanna’s father, Troy, (the servant of all servants) followed in 2003. I could go on but can you see how my heart might be a little closer to heaven these days? One of the intellectual questions I was pondering at the time was how my life experience intersects with eternal heaven. I thought of it in a Trekkie way of a space/time continuum. (I really don’t know what that means either, I just like the sound of it). It was one year ago today, nearly to the hour that God gave me a treasured gift of understanding. You may already know this, I did not. I was reading at that moment from Paul’s letter to the Ephesians
EPH 3:14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Paul was praying for all the saints, of his generation and ours to know the depth of the Love of God. That got me to thinking, Grandpa prayed for me, as did my dads and a whole lot of others. Not all of their prayers were answered back then, at least not in fullness. I don’t remember the words they used, only I knew then I was being prayed for. They were concerned about family things and ministry things, knowing they would not see the final pages. Then it came to me in an all but audible voice. What I was doing right at that moment was a fulfillment of those unanswered prayers of 40 years ago. Could that possibly mean they know now? Following is an unedited copy of part of my prayer journal from one year ago today:

Father your ability to draw threads of life together into a culminating event that spans generations is well documented in scripture but takes just short of a lifetime to experience. Yesterdays scriptures and words from the past culminated in an understanding of how eternity intertwines with the present and past. Paul prayed for future generations in Eph 3, Grandpa and Dad added to that prayer with me specifically in mind. Paul, Dad and Grandpa are with you and yet we are all still working together for the same eternal cause, the one YOU prayed for before the foundations of the earth were materialized. You told the powers and principalities around the throne to just watch. They watch and give you glory AZ time for what is happening, or about to happen at Grace Family Fellowship. No way is my family going to be left out of that. It brings glory to you there now. Ephesians 2 taught me years ago that Heaven is child centered. I have preached that the things we do now will bring glory to you and reward to us then. I see how it works. Paul, grandpa and Dad, grandma and Mom all prayed for me as a minister. I hope they have not seen the struggles but joined in rejoicing in others victories. Now they can see the fulfillment of their prayers in your eternal plan working through me which they asked you to do. I don’t remember the specific words, but I do remember the prayer times and I have the books and bibles. It happened, is happening and will happen. I can verify most every step from scripture and sermons I preached over the years. When revival comes you will say to the throngs around the throne, Look here at Max, 39 years ago he gave his grandson a bible with a prayer, from 2 Tim. when I called his grandson into ministry. Now look here at MY answer to that prayer. Another pentacost! Right there in Deer Valley. And everyone and every thing will praise you and grandpa will know he is vindicated for the years of abuse he took from his family when he obeyed at his call. Glory to glory. That is how heaven works, tying the threads of eternity to the present, all to the glory of God. What is god doing, weaving the prayers of the past into the power of the present for his glory and our good and it is not over. NO OTHER GOD OF ANY MANS IMAGINATION COULD OR WOULD DO THAT. You are one of a kind, the originator, author and sustainer of it all. To not give all to cooperate with you is the epitome of stupidity of which I all too often am the poster boy. I want to be a poster boy of another kind. I want to share what I know after you have proven it in our fellowship. IT could be the book I could transcribe. You are the author. I NEVER in eternity would have seen that, I am unimaginative in that respect. In a way it will be hard NOT to share, but I know that short of visible and viable evidence no one wants to hear it.
A small part of the evidence of revival sat in my living room last night. That created a sanctified ruckus amongst the angels, my overly curious Grandfather wanted to know what the ruckus was about and I know of at least 5 who were honored by Father and praising Father in heaven last night because of the answer to their to that moment unanswered prayers. What a glorious sight!
168 Have you ever visited with a loved one in a dream? How did it make you feel?
What was the lie Mack needed to let go of?
A That he was to blame for Missy’s disappearance.
Are you living with a lie you need to let go of?
What did Sophia mean when she said “Judgment is not about destruction, it is about setting things right”.
A Ideally in our legal system a judgment does right some wrongs. Not all wrongs can be righted, not all scales can be balanced. No judgment or punishment imaginable would balance the scales for Mack…but the scales must balance or all the Mack’s of the world are doomed to a lonely bitter existence.
What implications does that have for the cross?
A On the Cross, Jesus spread his arms…and balanced the scales for all of us. His sacrifice covered not only our debt of sin with God but our debt of sin with each other. To make the scales equal man to man everything must be taken into account, God did that in Jesus. From our perspective your sin against me is always bigger than my sin against you. But our sin against God is an infinite chasm that can be bridged only from his side to ours by his love and grace. To accept the fullness of his love we must release the grudge we harbor against others. To the degree that we hold the grudge, we cannot hold the love. When we release all those who sin against us the ensuing vacuum is filled with Papa’s love.

2 pages from The Shack

Doni, age 3ish at the shack we stayed in at Mount Hermon, Ca.

Last night was a night of insight for me in our Shack study. I thought I would share my notes from just two pages of the Annotated Shack discussion guide.

136 What happens when humans determine good and evil for themselves? What is the chief result?
A It allows man to play god in his self determination and independence without any of the prerequisite abilities for doing it successfully. Man becomes fuzzy in his thinking about God and seeking to be free ends up in a bondage he cannot break out of. Sahck study guide, shack discussion guide
What is Evil?
A The absence of Good. Read the third paragraph pg 136 for the complete description. Don’t overlook the implications of this teaching. If I understand this correctly, it answers the question “did God create Evil? NO, God only created good, love etc. Stepping outside of what god created is ALL evil from God’s perspective. Anything of any description that separates us from the Love of God is by definition evil. We have personified evil and given it a power it does not have. (Satan may be a personification of Evil but is not evil itself by this definition). The focus of our lives then should NOT be to stay away from evil, but to stay IN the Love and fellowship of God. Consider this: there is no scientific formula for darkness because it is not created. It is true nothingness and is described in Genesis 1 as darkness being prevalent in the pre creation state. GE 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. GE 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God did not create dark, he created light. Under the same reasoning, God did not create Evil. Evil is like dark, it describes the absence of Gods light. In practical application we need to place the emphasis of our lives on staying in the light more than just avoiding evil. We do not want to be like King Amaziah: 2CH 25:1 Amaziah was twenty and five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Jehoaddan of Jerusalem. 2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, but not with a perfect heart.
Our challenge is to follow the instructions of John: 1JN 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. Walking in the light will go a long way towards taking care of the sin problem in man.

What are the implications of “Both evil and darkness can only be understood in relation to Light and Good; they do not have any actual existence”?
A They do not have the power we credit them with having. Simply add light and the darkness disappears.
How does light and good actually exist? What are the relationship implications of that?
A They exist only in God. The further we are from him the darker it is. With God living in me, light exists in me, not darkness. 1 Jo 1:5-7
Why does independent living always result in evil? Are there any exceptions?
A It always ends in death and darkness because it is not where God is.
137 What is the difference between personal rights and being loved. What are personal rights, where do we get them, how to we keep or enforce them?
A Rights are something I determine and must fight for to protect and keep, even if it means infringing on your rights. First rule of rights is mine come first. I get to make them up as I go, change them on a whim and never have to communicate the lines to another until they are threatened. I will use any power, strategy, system, institution, threat, or force at my disposal to keep my rights as I see them. To surrender is tantamount to the death of me. Love is not something we can fight for. True and pure love is something freely offered and accepted
What does Sarayu mean “rights are were survivors go, so they won’t have to work out relationships”?
A Rights are a life long struggle to find and defend. Battle scars abound of every sort. Rights are a walled fortress that must lock out every other human being and God lest they be challenged and overthrown. I can only live in relationship to the degree I surrender my idea of personal rights.
When a person is demanding their rights, what are they actually doing? Where will that lead?
A choosing to live independently of everyone. To maintain their rights they will have to destroy another’s rights. It will lead to darkness, separation, loneliness, despair, grief and to exactly the opposite of what they think enforcing their personal rights will lead.
Can you get your rights by demanding them?
A of course. You have the right to be alone, live in the dark, trapped by unrealized dreams and desires, defeated, deflated and on the way to being destroyed, void of what you thought you were getting by demanding your rights.
What is the net result when we surrender all rights to God.
A Freedom, light, liberty, the pursuit and possession of happiness, the fruit of the spirit, confidence, life, purpose, power, fulfillment, adventure, mystery, surprise, glory, praise and the like.
In relationship to God?
A A peek into the depth of the love of God. Participation in his actual activities on earth now and for eternity. A chance to bring him glory. Understanding, loss of fear, regret, guilt and shame.
In relationship to others?
A The opportunity to love and be loved, to share, fulfill and be filled, to understand, fellowship, worship together. To be more than you could be alone. Be free of expectations, performance, demands and fear of abuse. To live and serve with no fear of being taken advantage of. To know friendship, experience a oneness like the oneness that exists in the godhead. To have a little bit of heaven on earth. To live and love free. When I give up my rights I don’t have to protect myself from you. I have nothing to protect thus nothing to lose but much to gain.
Why did Jesus give up his rights as God to become Man?
A To make all the above possible.
How does God react to our anger? Elucidate
A With eternal love of purpose.
138 What does the garden of your soul look like? Is it a mess or a fractal?. Why do you say that?
A Fractals are only possible when Romans 8:28 is in effect with God’s children. Without his working, it is just a mess, and ugly at that.

The Shack Annotated discussion guide, Ch 9

A well meaning friend suggested that I read some reviews of The Shack posted on some popular web sites. I have already read many and I don't agree with most of them. Typically they take a line from the Shack and create a theology on that line entirely out of context. Besides, I have already written the most extensive review of the Shack (and compared it to scripture) that can be found on-line. I am pretty sure I know what the Shack says. The following is my notes on Ch. 9 which is available to anyone who wants it. Compare it to the scripture yourself and see what Sarayu has to say to you.

CHAPTER 9
A LONG TIME AGO IN A GARDEN, FAR, FAR AWAY
128 What do you think of the description of Sarayu?
129 What is a fractal?
A an indefinitely complex pattern that looks simple at first glance.
How is your life a fractal?
A More complex than the sum of the things I do that consumes my time and energy. There is more to me than what even I see. I am a mess in many ways but beautiful to God.
131 God created all things good, are all things still good? Explain.
A Mankind’s attempts at self direction and independence has turned things that were created good into things that are very bad. Relationships have turned to abuse, sacrifice becomes slavery, Truth is relative, God is absent. Creation itself groans.
132 Detail how a good creation is being dragged down.
A Abuse of people, misuse of the environment, pollution of every sort that poisons the body, soul and spirit. No God, No Glory, no hope. Nothingness is all that can be hoped for in a godless world.
How and why is it happening?
A Mankind’s stubborn self seeking independence instead of cooperating with and enjoying a living relationship with the creator.
Why is creation full of mysteries? Which ones fascinate you the most?
A It is a gift of love from the creator and it also directs us back to him. My personal Favorite: Hubble telescope space shots.
How does Sarayu define freedom? Based on that freedom, are you personally free? Free from what to do what?
A freedom is trust and obedience inside a relationship of love. We are free from the tyranny of rules, regulations, lists, have to’s, shoulds, Should nots, performance, points, expectations, failure, success, shame, guilt. We are free to live in love, accepted, protected, guided, empowered, inspired, visionary, simplicity, humility, grace, joy, fearless, confident.
133 What might the roots symbolize that Sarayu and Mack are digging up? Is it just good gardening or something more?
A the roots are the unseen attitudes and intents of the heart that could spring up and choke out the new plants they were planting before they had time to take root.
Why was it a disaster for humans to have eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
A It started the race down the path of independent living, each deciding for himself what was good or evil based on how he was impacted personally.
134 Besides the Garden of Eden what other “rumors of glory are hidden inside of what many consider myths and tales”?
A The flood, The exodus miracles, Jonah, the miracles of Jesus, The resurrection.
Why do people resist the biblical accounts of creation as fantasy and yet accept inconclusive or contradictory scientific theory as fact?
How is your process for determining good from evil different from Mack’s process?
135 What happens when there is no absolute reality to objectively define Good and Evil?
A There is no basis for judging anything. Do whatever you want until someone with more power stops you. There are no standards, no morality, no right, no wrong. Nothing matters. It should be the norm of life IF we were not created.
What did eating from the Tree do to man and creation?
A The spiritual was ripped away from the physical leaving man to wander on his own in an aimless, pointless, lost existence, coming from no where, living for nothing and going no where. The spirit of Man died that day.
How much time do you spend trying to acquire what you see as good and avoid what you see as evil? How’s that working for you?
136 What happens when humans determine good and evil for themselves? What is the chief result?
A It allows man to play god in his self determination and independence without any of the prerequisite abilities for doing it successfully. Man becomes fuzzy in his thinking about God and seeking to be free ends up in a bondage he cannot break out of.
What is Evil?
A The absence of Good. Read the third paragraph pg 136 for the complete description.
What are the implications of “Both evil and darkness can only be understood in relation to Light and Good; they do not have any actual existence”?
A The do not have the power we credit them with having. Simply add light and the darkness disappears.
How does light and good actually exist? What are the relationship implications of that?
A They exist only in God. The further we are from him the darker it is. With God living in me, light exists in me, not darkness.
Why does independent living always result in evil? Are there any exceptions?
A It always ends in death and darkness because it is not where god is.
137 What is the difference between personal rights and being loved. What are personal rights, where do we get them, how to we keep or enforce them?
A Rights are something I determine and must fight for to protect and keep, even if it means infringing on your rights. First rule of rights is mine come first. I get to make them up as I go, change them on a whim and never have to communicate the lines to another until they are threatened. I will use any power, strategy, system, institution, threat, or force at my disposal to keep my rights as I see them. To surrender is tantamount to the death of me.
What does Sarayu mean “rights are were survivors go, so they won’t have to work out relationships”?
A Rights are a life long struggle to find and defend. Battle scars abound of every sort. Rights are a walled fortress that must lock out every other human being and God lest they be challenged and overthrown. I can only live in relationship to the degree I surrender my idea of personal rights.
When a person is demanding their rights, what are they actually doing? Where will that lead?
A choosing to live independently of everyone. To maintain their rights they will have to destroy another’s rights. It will lead to darkness, separation, loneliness, despair, grief and to exactly the opposite of what they think enforcing their personal rights will lead.
Can you get your rights by demanding them?
A of course. You have the right to be alone, live in the dark, trapped by unrealized dreams and desires, defeated, deflated and on the way to being destroyed, void of what you thought you were getting by demanding your rights.
What is the net result when we surrender all rights to God.
A Freedom, light, liberty, the pursuit and possession of happiness, the fruit of the spirit, confidence, life, purpose, power, fulfillment, adventure, mystery, surprise, glory, praise and the like.
In relationship to God?
A A peek into the depth of the love of God. Participation in his actual activities on earth now and for eternity. A chance to bring him glory. Understanding, loss of fear, regret, guilt and shame.
In relationship to others?
A The opportunity to love and be loved, to share, fulfill and be filled, to understand, fellowship, worship together. To be more than you could be alone. Be free of expectations, performance, demands and fear of abuse. To live and serve with no fear of being taken advantage of. To know friendship, experience a oneness like the oneness that exists in the godhead. To have a little bit of heaven on earth. To live and love free. When I give up my rights I don’t have to protect myself from you. I have nothing to protect thus nothing to lose but much to gain.
Why did Jesus give up his rights as God to become Man?
A To make all the above possible.
How does God react to our anger? Elucidate
A With eternal love of purpose.
138 What does the garden of your soul look like? Is it a mess or a fractal?. Why do you say that?
A Fractals are only possible when Romans 8:28 is in effect with God’s children. Without his working, it is just a mess, and ugly at that.

The Shack Annotated discussion guide, Ch 8

Our group finished Chapter 8 tonight. Thought some might like to see our discussion.

CHAPTER 8
THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS
118 How do you know God is especially fond of you?
A Typically we look for some favorable circumstances to determine the depth of God’s love for us or lack of it. While any pleasant experience may provide some emotional comfort, it is not a good basis for determining the strength of God’s love for us. It is as fleeting as the emotion it brings forth. ONLY in His Word can we see the depth of His love and commitment to us. Creation, the cross and His Coming again says it all. The Spirit bears witness to our spirit that he loves us. No emotion, experience or evidence, pro or con, can trump the declarations of God’s love for us.
119 Who is God angry with? Does God get angry with believing children? Why do you think so?
A I personally would disagree that God becomes angry with his believing children, but it is not a big deal to me either if you disagree. God can be mad at you if you want. In this conversation Papa is including ALL children, some of whom will be consumed by her Loving Wrath. That part I see. My reason: God has no reason to be angry with believing children is because He is in total control, He is in me and I am in him (see above, Col 1:27-28, Romans 8, and Eph 3)and he does not hold, count or remember any of my sin against me. The sin issue was settled on the cross when Jesus was made to BE sin for us and broke it’s power over us in his resurrection.
Isa 1:18 Come now let us reason together, Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.
PS 51:7 Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
HEB 10:17 Then he adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."
PS 103:12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us. What things would you find much easier if you were just to accept what is?
What is included in “What is”?
A Everything that is unsettled, contradictory, incomplete etc about God revealed in the Word.
120 How can Papa say “I don’t need to punish people for sin. Sin is its own punishment, devouring you from the inside. It is not my purpose to punish it, it is my joy to cure it”?
A The eternal plan was to recapture the original purpose in perfection. Jesus did that on the Cross. Papa is working it all out now. Originally man walked and talked with Jesus in the garden but independent thinking moved Adam and Eve to sin. Our problem today is NOT sin (which was taken care of on the cross) but independent self will. We have been saved from our sins, we need to be saved daily from our independent self and consciously live IN CHRIST and Christ IN US. If we concentrate on the relationship independent living that expresses itself in sin will not be an issue.
121 What captured Mack about the way Papa, Jesus and Sarayu communicated?
A The simplicity and beauty of their relationship, their oneness, their love for each other, how they lived in harmony.
Who is the leader in the trinity?
A Jesus said in John (above) the father was greater and he was the same as the father. This is one of the contradictions that is declared and never explained. It is part of the WHAT IS above. Where we are used to seeing hierarchy, the trinity only knows unity. Jesus is submissive to the Father, but not in the way we understand submissiveness. There is no disagreement here. If you try to figure this out perfectly you’re going to get a migraine and or ulcer! Young’s purpose here is to help us to see the relationship that we are invited to partake in, not to understand the incomprehensible. This section really challenges us to consider how we relate to each other in our institutional churches. Jake Coleman’s So You Don’t Want to go to Church Any More takes a serious look at the inherent flaws in the typical institutional church. He does not call for the overthrow of the institution, but the renewal of working and living in relationship in the body church, not the building church. He is calling for the institution to promote relationship, not sacrifice relationship for the institution.
Unfortunately some people may take an extreme view of this general subject and decide that institutions and hierarchy are not a part of God’s plan for people. Clearly this is not the message intended here. God does have a hierarchy in the home, church, business and government. Of course there are going to be abuses in a fallen world, but the plan and commands in respect to authority is still in scripture. The issue is not leadership but relationship.
122 What is the difference between a circle of relationship and a chain of command.
A There is perfect unity, agreement and oneness in the circle of relationship that exists ONLY in the trinity. Because of sin, that probably can not and so far has not existed among any circle of believers. Our fallen nature makes it impossible for us to live without some sort of hierarchy and command structure. Each of us are too selfish and independent to live in that kind of harmony. It hinders us from joining in true relationship but there is NO REASON WE SHOULD NOT TRY. Obviously there would have to be some basic agreement on the plan or submission would be tantamount to becoming someone’s slave. Ideally, a body of believers could, should and will adopt a new ideal and head in this direction. Sadly, until we are perfected we will fall short. Better to fall short trying. To the degree we succeed in community, we will experience a little heaven on earth. A good place to start:
PHP 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.

PHP 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:…..


Why would the trinity NOT need or desire an authority based structure?
A They are one, united, equal, indivisible, unique, infinite, perfect, complete, finished. They have no need to grow in any sense.
Why is it hard for humans to reach true relationships?
A Independent spirit always looking out for self first. Unworthy, unwilling, untrusting.
Does a hierarchy have to act like a circle of relationship?
A NO and realistically as much as possible, yes. I am the pastor of a small church made up largely of interrelated families. I am the unchallenged leader by all standards. I would love to live in unity with all but I do not know how to stop babies from acting like babies. NO way will I let the toddlers decide what they are going to do in the nursery. They need protection and love. If I just let them run they would play in the parking lot and eat all the cookies. A very strong hierarchy must exist for their protection. Similarly, I cannot just encourage every young Christian to do whatever they want when they want. Some structure must exist and God has placed me there to lead. My goal is simple: Unity and maturity according to Eph 3:14ff. I know I will die without reaching it completely, but maybe I can set the stage for the next generation to come closer to the “wonder of relationship we intended”. Right now if I killed off every aspect of institutionalism, the patient would die also. It is the best I can do today.
123 How have we confused “adaptation for intention or seduction for reality”?
A Because of our stubborn independence we have had to adapt to a hierarchy over relationship, but that was not the original purpose in the garden. Reality of life exists in relationship with people, not power over them. Note here that Papa tried to get Mack to go easy on the greens making him pull twice. She warned him he was eating too much and told him she was looking out for him, but let him eat all the same. Why? Papa already has a solution at hand. Sarayu gives him the herbs to settle his stomach later, but he still got sick to his stomach first.
Is it always dangerous to choose independence over relationship? Are there any exceptions?
A To the degree that we choose independence (read I want it my way) over relationship in any human, be it church, work or marriage, there is danger. Independence produces power struggles, each side looking for some advantage, neither side willing to give in for fear of the loss of control. The golden rule of the street kicks in here. “He who has the gold makes the rules!” Proverbs is full of wisdom of who to stay away from. In relationship living the other golden rule applies; Do unto others.
How does God work within our systems while trying to free us from them?
A As we learn to live loved in relationship with God and each other we will discover that God works in, around, through or without the institution and approaches the individual and offers a new way of living in relationship with Himself that is void of institutional trappings, rules, expectations, performance, demands and any laws that do not fulfill the first and great command to Love God and each other.
What systems do you need to be freed from?
124 Why was man made in the first place?
A To live in relationship with Him and each other.
Are you yielding to the matrix?
A PHP 2:1 If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. 4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. PHP 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
PHP 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
PHP 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. PHP 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross! PHP 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, PHP 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, PHP 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
What would life be like “unencumbered by structure and simply free to be in relationship with God and one another”?
A Heaven
What kind of hierarchy will there be in heaven for eternity? What could that imply?
A Assuming there is not a hierarchy as we would understand here on earth, we would live in the circle of love and relationship with God, sharing all that he is. If that is correct, to some degree we can begin that kind of living now by consciously refusing independence and choosing relationship with God and others.
In your life has “everything that has taken place …occurred…exactly according to this purpose, without violating choice or will”?
125 Why does God not stop evil?
A He will not over rule free choice in general and the evil that effects any individual can only be understood in the context of his life and eternity. We cannot understand all that God knows and sees now. People living under the illusion of the God of their imagination instead of the God of revelation will turn against their God for failing to protect them from harm. They confuse WHICH God they are angry with, often blaming the God of revelation for something He did not desire or cause. They become hardened against God in general insisting on their own independence and power. The alternative is to recognize the difference between the self inclined God and embrace the scripture defined God who promises to work it all together according to his purpose. The God of Scripture is not a liar. He wins every case in court.

If God does not stop evil, does that make him complicit in the evil? Explain
A To make God complicit because he does not use the totality of his power to control all evil is comparable to making the US Army complicit in terror attacks. One well placed nuke would stop all terrorist activities in Bagdad. Build a wall all around some cities and don’t let anyone in or out. Restrict all movement with the threat of death to violators. That would defeat the entire purpose of trying to set them free. The goal for both is freedom, not annihilation.
Can any choice I make cause God to have to alter his plan or purpose? Why do you think so?
A He already took it into account. A fun mental exercise is to consider that because God is the ultimate source of everything of any description and is timeless, he never planned anything or thought anything as a man would think. He simply is I AM It leads to the conclusion that he is large and in charge and can be trusted with every detail, big or small. RO 11:36 For from him and through him and to him are all things.
Does God literally use every choice we make for the ultimate good and the most loving outcome?
Why doesn’t it always feel like that?
A We have limited vision and understanding of our fractal. We also fail to see God is bigger than our sin or problems. Our view of God will also cloud our feelings. We fail to believe that God really does love us completely and totally.
126 What were the lies that Mack had bought into that caused him to say that the ends justified the means?
A That God uses or is in some way associated with evil. God is not totally good or trustworthy. A self centered view of the universe. Mack is feeling insignificant, like he does not really matter when the truth is that he is the highest of God’s creation.
Is there a sense in which you share Mack’s underlying flaw?
If you are worried or anxious about something, is that an indication that you share Mack’s ailment? Why or why not?
What is trust? How is it achieved?
A Trust is the “fruit of a relationship in which you know you are loved” It is achieved by growing in the relationship one step at a time. It is not about performance, rule keeping, standards or any institutional set of values. It is walking and talking together, sharing and listening. It is truly believing that God is love and has your very best interests at heart.
How did Papa say he would help Mack learn and change? Would that same thing work for you in your life?
What did Papa mean when he said it was not performance?
A Nothing we do can make Him love us any more or less. We must believe God truly loves us.
127 What did Papa mean when He said, “we’re not justifying it, we are redeeming it”?
A Mack was trying to make sense of his daughters murder and did not feel any good result could justify his loss. God was doing much more than justifying it, he is redeeming it by breaking the power of evil. Mack is only seeing this from his personal perspective not the totality of what God is doing both now and in eternity. Consider the greatest sacrifice, Jesus. God made that work for the good of all mankind even though the disciples and Mary could not see it or understand it.